My acquaintance with Cole Wehrle began when I asked him for a favor. I was editing a wargames magazine and the publisher had asked me to run a review of Mark Simonitch's The US Civil War. I didn't h...
They have so many games that look so so good. I'm especially interested in Agricola: Master of Brita
[Everdell, An Infamous Traffic, Agricola, Master of Britain, The Castles of Burgundy, Wars of Marcus Aurelius: Rome 170-180CE, Tapestry, Roads & Boats,...]
I've been browsing hollandspiele's online catolog the last several days. They have so many games that look so so good. I'm especially interested in Agricola: Master of Britain, The Wars of Marcus Aurelius, and Infamous Traffic. But I keep on seeing what I consider to be poor art assets, and poor component quality. For instance, most of their games have paper maps. I know paper maps are common in wargames. But I'm not a war gamer as such.
Hollandspiele is not the only company like this. I want to try some of the Splotter games, but I can't bring myself to pay that kind of money for something that looks like Roads and Boats.
So how important do you think board game components are? Do you think I would have liked Castles of Burgandy if it had been produced by Stonemaier or FFG? How often do shiny components mask a poor game?
There is also the truth that chrome in a game sells. Scythe is my favorite game. But, I don't think that it would have been the raging success on Kickstarter that it was if it weren't for the stunning art. Many people were dissatisfied with the seeming disconnect between the art and the game play, though I think it works pretty well. How often does the game community buy *stuff* rather than gameplay?
The components are the way we interact with the world that the designer /artist created. Are there times that they interfere?
Some would argue that the beautiful prepainted buildings in Tapestry actually are unclear and interfere in gameplay. I've also heard that the beautiful evocative tree in Everdell actually is in the way for some of the people at the table, and takes them out of the game to a certain extent.
So what is the middle ground for the gamer? There is nothing wrong with buying the components, but at a certain point it becomes a seperate hobby. What are games that emphasize component quality, and helpful design, without falling into the "more is always better" trap? Should I be more willing to drop a little money on Hollandspiele or a lot of money on Splotter?
I asked this question here, I think it was a year ago or so. But, I was thinking about this more after my questions about art from a few days ago.
How important is component quality. I have games from Hollandspiele high on my wishlist. Quite frankly, a big reason I haven't gotten any yet is that many of the ones I want sport paper maps. I have a hard time getting excited about a paper map, I know paper maps are common among wargamers, but I am not a wargamer.
Alternatively, I think of those games that have superlative component quality. For years #Scythe was my favorite game. And, Scythe was a blowout hit. It continues to be a evergreen title for Stonemair Games. But, how much of my pleasure came from the tactility pleasure that the game offers? I don't know. The same question could be asked of #Wingspan. How much of its popularity is due to it's gameplay, and how much to it's stunning components?
As far as I can tell, component quality is a very important thing for marketing. And, truthfully, all else being equal, better components can elevate a playing experience. However, I have heard about a number of potential issues with more premium components when not designed with enough care. Some examples include:
I have heard that the Ever Tree in #Everdell can be a big problem in multiplayer games, it can block view of the cards in the meadow for some players.
The redesigned water beads in #High Frontier 4 All were designed to look more like water. But, now they roll more and you can't stack them.
The waterproof cards in chip theory games are supposedly slippier and stacks are more prone to fall.
The beautiful painted buildings in #Tapestry can make it harder to read the city boards.
To be clear, I don't have personal experience with these games, yet. But, these are complaints I have heard a number of times. And I have wondered if gameplay is helped more or hurt more by the buildings in Tapestry, maybe it would have been better to make them polyominoes. Maybe the Sierra Madre/Ion Game Design should have kept their flat water discs instead of going to beads for HF4E.
I do think that some people buy games for components. I don't have a problem with that, you do you. But, do you agree that there is a general focus on better components than there was 5 or 10 years ago? If so, do you believe that this focus is generally helpful or unhelpful? Do you think that developers/designers are working too hard at selling components at the expense of gameplay?
I think I have been on a bit of a journey as a board gamer. I am less and less interested in how good the components are. And, more and more interested in the gameplay. I am beginning to love cardboard chits, they can carry so much more information than a mini. At the same time, I am happy to pay more for the components that elevate gameplay, i.e. I bought metal coins for #Pax Pamir (Second Edition). But, I am also more impatient with deluxification when it actually obfuscates in some way the gameplay.
Where are you at? How highly do you highly component quality? Is there any game that component quality will make so that you will not buy a game? Would I have liked #The Castles of Burgundy if it had been made by Stonemair or FFG?
"Soloing a board game? Why.....?" you might ask. At least, that was me when I first heard of this form of entertainment. Fast forward 1.5 years, I have Too Many Bones and Nemo's War proudly sitting at the top of my wishlist. And now I'm talking with Liz, one of the biggest proponents of solo gaming in the industry.
Hey Liz, thank you for making your time! First up, could you tell us a bit about yourself?
Sure! I review solo board games for my own site, Beyond Solitaire, and for The Dice Tower. I also create solo tutorials on my YouTube channel, as well as interview interesting people about board game history and culture on my podcast. Both are, shockingly, called Beyond Solitaire. In regular life, I am a high school Latin teacher.
Teachers are awesome (in hindsight). How has that experience been for you and if you were to go back, would you still choose to teach high school students? (I teach high school students too by the way!)
I will admit that COVID has me feeling a little less enthusiastic about my job at the moment—I am currently doing “concurrent” teaching, which means I have some students physically in the room with me while others are online. I teach both groups simultaneously. It’s not a sustainable way to teach. But in a normal year? Being a teacher is awesome, and I particularly love to teach high schoolers. They are great because they are starting to develop more “adult” opinions and perspectives, but also have a lot of growing to do. Plus, teenagers are hilarious.
How aware are your students about your love for board games? (Have they subscribed to your YouTube channel?!) Also, have you ever tried using board games (or its concepts) as an example when teaching?
In a normal year, students know I love board games because I play with them all the time! (Unfortunately, that’s not the case right now.) I’m actually pretty open about the fact that I have a YouTube channel because once the kids know about it, it’s not interesting to them at all anymore, and they leave me be. I have no interest in interacting online with students who have not graduated yet. I haven’t fully had the opportunity, but I want to play more games with the kids in Latin. I’ve made a Latin UNO deck before, but I have a draft translation of “Love Letter” that I’m dying to test out.
What is your "teaching philosophy" and do you find that it carries over into how you approach the "how-to" videos on your channel?
My teaching philosophy is that every student can learn Latin, if they are supported and allowed to learn at their own pace. I also believe that learning should be enjoyable. I try to break games down into digestible chunks on my YouTube channel, just as I would any concept for class. My gaming and teaching philosophies also line up in the sense that I believe that everyone can learn games and enjoy gaming. But my “real life” classes are a lot more interactive than my YouTube channel.
Don't give up on Mage Knight! Liz has an awesome series of tutorials to tackle that bear.
What has been the most rewarding part of running your YouTube channel and what is your vision for the channel?
Just having a channel and watching it grow is tremendously rewarding. I think I get more enjoyment out of my games by communing with them and then interacting with others about them. But my vision for my channel is constantly in flux. At first I thought I just wanted to do tutorials, but I’ve really started to enjoy interviewing people, and my interest in historical games is evolving in some unknown direction. My podcast is my favorite project I have done to date, because I’m having so much fun looking at and thinking about games on a deeper level and with such great conversation partners.
I feel like most solo gamers go through a transition point of "before solo" and "after solo". Could you share how your transition went?
My solo transition isn’t all that exciting. I may cover only solo games, but I play both alone and in groups. The simplest version of the story is that I really loved to play Magic: The Gathering, but it was too expensive and annoying to keep collecting all of the cards. I switched to the Lord of the RIngs LCG to scratch that deck construction itch, discovered I could play it by myself, and boom, I was a solo gamer.
What do you think are some of the biggest barriers to solo gaming? (whether for people not yet into solo gaming or for solo gamers)
I think there are two main barriers. The first is that it’s a pain in the butt to learn a bunch of games all by yourself. It is far easier to have someone teach you a game. I personally like to be taught by others whenever possible. The second is that I think people still struggle with the idea of doing most things by themselves. I value my alone time, and I was willing to go to the movies or eat in restaurants by myself before I discovered solo gaming. I think that made it easier for me to give it a shot.
The "soloness" of Liz's gaming is debatable :)
Despite the "barriers," solo gaming has gained a lot of traction over the years, where it now seems almost criminal for a game to not have a solo mode. What do you think are the main reasons behind this trend?
People like to pretend that solo gaming is some weird niche activity, but in reality, it is hugely popular. The solo community is huge and vibrant—just take a look at the 1 Player Guild on BGG, or the Solo Board Gamers group on Facebook. We solo players are enthusiastic about games, we play a lot of them, we gather to discuss them online. There is no online gaming community I’d rather be a part of. To me, it makes perfect sense that a publisher would want to capture a little of that magic.
There are all sorts of different solo modes these days. What's your favorite and why? Actually, do you happen to have a favorite designer whose ideas always seem to resonate with you?
Overall, Mage Knight is my most beloved solo board game and I don’t see any other game unseating it. That said, I particularly like board games that are truly designed for solo players, and I like to play against some kind of game system. I don’t necessarily have a favorite designer, but I do love Chip Theory Games. I also adore solo war games designed by David Thompson (Pavlov’s House, Castle Itter) and Robert Deleskie (Wars of Marcus Aurelius).
Have you ever had a designer approach you and ask for feedback on their solo mode? What do you think are your personal criteria in judging whether a solo mode is good or bad?
I’ve been approached to playtest but I hate doing it. I prefer to review a finished product. For me, a solo mode is good if it is engaging and full of interesting choices, and I like it even better if it plays very smoothly. A solo mode is bad if it’s needlessly complicated, unclear, clunky, or an underdeveloped tack-on to a multiplayer game.
Let's say I had a friend who is new to board games but enjoys a puzzly kind of experience. Which game(s) would you recommend? How about for a friend who is a polar opposite of that and wants an epic experience under 2 hours?
These are really questions for 1PG or the Solo Board Gamers Facebook group. But if you want a puzzle, go for a Euro. If you want a thematic experience, go for a fantasy adventure or a wargame.
You've been a Dice Tower contributor for a while, but it was my first time seeing you featured on one of their Top 10 videos (which I loved by the way!) How was the experience and if you were to go back, would you do anything differently?
I loved doing those Top 10 videos for Dice Tower! The entire Dice Tower crew is friendly, relaxed, and fun to be around, and it’s been really nice to get to know them better over the last year or two. I don’t think I would do anything differently—it was a blast!
If you could do another Top "X" video on The Dice Tower, what would you love to talk about and who would you like to have join you?
I actually am not a great person to ask about this because I am not actually a big fan of Top 10 lists. (Heresy!) They are just arbitrary fun, and my rankings change all the time. It might be fun to do a Top 10 of games set in the ancient world, with Morgane Gouyon-Rety (Pendragon), Robert DeLeskie (Wars of Marcus Aurelius, Stilicho), and Tom Russell (Agricola, Master of Britain and much more).
If you could change anything about your favorite solo game (Mage Knight), what would it be and why?
I would not change Mage Knight. I would change my schedule so that I had more time to play Mage Knight.
I love that answer.
Which game has been on your radar for 2021, and what makes you excited about it? Also, which game do you think has the highest potential to make big leaps in rankings on the Solo Guild's Top 100 games for 2021?
My big game for 2021, barring a huge surprise, is going to be Hoplomachus: Victorum from Chip Theory Games. I am a huge Hoplo fan, and I absolutely cannot wait to see how they renew/rework the game system I know and love. Honestly, whatever makes a surprise leap onto the Solo Guild’s Top 100 will be a game that gets a lot of press, and I’m terrible at predicting that. My feeling is that the upper end of that list is fairly static, and as you get further down, you see more games that rise and fall dramatically due to reprints, representation on Facebook or BGG, etc.
Is there a super underappreciated game that deserves more attention? If so, please make your case on why we should try it out!
Everyone acts like war games are so brutal and scary, and they have been falling off of the People’s Choice Top 100 at an alarming rate. I say go ahead and try one—Thunderbolt: Apache Leader gets less love these days than I think it deserves, as do many DVG games (Cards of Cthulhu, David Thompson’s Valiant Defense Series…) Also, if you haven’t tried something from Hollandspiele yet, do it. Don’t expect luxury components. Do expect a thought-provoking experience and a sassy rulebook.
Lastly, are there any exciting developments in the works you would like to share with us? What would be your dream project? (Please let us know how we can stay up to date with you too)
I’m working on Season 2 of my podcast right now, and it’s going to be awesome! I’m reworking how I want to approach my YouTube channel, but definitely expect more tutorials, and maybe more deep dives into the history behind some of my favorite games. Also, I read as much as I game, and I finally started a BookTube channel so I could talk about books. You can find me pretty much anywhere as Beyond Solitaire (and as Beyond Solitaire Books if reading is your thing).
Thanks again Liz! Loved hearing your thoughts when I watched you on Dice Tower's Top 10 and I knew I had to reach out. And I'm grateful for your tutorial on soloing Pax Pamir (Second Edition), it came in very handy and you were absolutely right—it was a real treat :)
Thanks for the read everyone and here are some links for you to stay up to date with Liz:
I would love to pick up a Hollandspiele or On Mars. Maybe the Underwater Cities expansion. Maybe Root expansions. Maybe I'd complete all the Imperial Assault stuff. Maybe I'd get SpaceCorps 2030. There are only a few options...
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Skurvy5 Supporter5 months ago |
I would love to pick up a Hollandspiele or On Mars. Maybe the Underwater Cities expansion. Maybe Root expansions. Maybe I'd complete all the Imperial Assault stuff. Maybe I'd get SpaceCorps 2030. There are only a few options...