3 points by trentellingsen - updated 6 months ago | unvote | 20 comments | report | Confirm you want to report this post.| subscribe
Marshwiggle92 Supporter6 months ago | 1 point[-]
The broken promises really do bother me. It does seem like they are ready to throw game trayz under the bus for failure to deliver a satisfactory product. But, when they aren't willing to do that for themselves.... It does leave a bad taste in my mouth.
JamesReid860 Supporter6 months ago | 1 point[-]
There are some of us who would gladly take anyone's kickstarter copy off your hands, in spite of issues lol
BenjaminK 6 months ago | 1 point[-]
You are not wrong!
menthabrw Supporter6 months ago | 1 point[-]
How many cards are we talking about?170 minicards, 100 bridge cards they saved like $3 per game or less.The cards would cost like $12 with linen finish to make them at printer studio, so most likely they can make it even cheaper. with 5000+ order in china. They had like 6000 backers.Linen finish is cool, but I think this problem could be solved if Grey Fox would offer something in return for the loss for tha backers.
My recent experience with Grey Fox was Deception that came with damaged tray and a few damaged cards...
Come to think of it, when the Champions of Midgard expansions were finished, the character boards didn't have rounded edges like the ones from the base game. So they reprinted them all and sent both sets along. So yeah, it would appear that they have some issues in that regard. With player boards being different, that's fine. It's the game-changing errors that would make me a bit more frustrated. Still, I hope they get their quality control issue sorted out. I like their company.
I backed it. Still trying to find time to play it, but that's beside the point. The point is the broken promises.
I'm cool with it. My GameTrayz weren't too bad, actually. Just a bit indented from the rubber bands holding them together. But, like you said, GameTrayz are sending out replacements to all backers. That's gotta cost a heap of money.
As for the linen finish...I do wish the cards were finished as the stretch goal promised, that's going to cost way more to produce and ship out than a couple trays per player. I know Renegade had a similar issue with their Proving Grounds game--it came with an incorrect deck, which made the game incredibly more difficult. So, they sent everyone who had pre-ordered it or had already purchased it a new deck. Now, that's one deck. And the game wasn't nearly as popular as Reavers was. Reavers has a ton more cards. And a lot more backers (Proving Grounds went straight to retail). The cards themselves are fine; it's just the texture. And, honestly, as much as I'd love to get replacements for those cards, it's not economically feasible for Grey Fox Games to do so. It was an oversight, yes. I'm glad they've been apologetic and open and honest about it all, but I'm not going to wish financial stress on a company that has, in the past, produced good games. I have always found them to be friendly, honest, and willing to work with customers with damages and whatnot. They're cards. I'll survive. And it won't negatively affect the play experience either.
I do mostly agree with you and I do admire your attitude. Also, I want to make it clear that I did not back them, nor am I planning to buy reavers.
The broken promise really really does bother me, but I think what bothers me more is the hypocrisy. Maybe I read their Kickstarter update wrong, I hope I read it wrong. But the way I understood it is that they received a game trayz product that was not up to the specifications that they had agreed on. It looks/sounds to me like grey fox games is expecting either game trayz or the manufacturer to pick up the tab for remaking 6000 game trayz. And as you said, these sorts of expenses can be crippling for a small company. Is it right for them to shield themselves from needing to pay for some new cards while at the same time demanding that game trayz makes their mistake right? I understand, that the cost might be booted to the manufacturers doorstep. I realize that the manufacturer is probably better able to absorb that loss than game trayz or grey fox, but that doesn't make it any less right to demand that they deliver a product they promised when you aren't willing to do the same.
I feel like I could feel a lot better about this situation if they would offer something, personally, to say, "I messed up, I'm sorry, here is something for a consolation."
Please, if I read the Kickstarter wrong tell me. I don't like to think negatively and companies in our community.
It's hard to tell on the Internet what their intentions were or how deep the hypocrisy goes. I am always one to err on the side of favor of anyone, and that's what I'm doing here. Still. It is a little disconcerting. Personally, it's not a big deal to me. I just wish I had more information to sort this all out. I like the company, and the people I've spoken with have been great. The games of theirs I've played have been some of my favorites. Maybe I'm biased (probably?).
I do think they should try and do something, since it is a pretty big deal for a lot of people. You cannot go wrong with that. Despite me being OK with everything, I'm still going to be wary of their next campaigns. And to answer your question, no, in the end, it is not right for them to demand someone else pick up the tab for an error while refusing to do so themselves. I understand why they are doing so, but it's still a bit shady.
Alright, so perhaps I hadn't thought everything through initially. Hearing other sides (that aren't angry backers cursing and carrying on) is helpful. My Canadian blood makes me far too forgiving haha I'm still OK with not receiving the replacements, but the more I think about it, the more I wish they'd either skipped the GameTrayz replacements as well, or else made the cards right as well.
It'll be interesting to see how this controversy unfolds. I fear that even if they do decide to rectify it in some way, they've already passed the point of no return for some (many) backers.
To sum up:
Is that in itself a double standard? haha Life can be soooo complicated sometimes :)
No, I don't think that your view is a double standard. You are merely stating that, personally, you are willing to cut Grey Fox Games some slack. I like to think that I would believe and act in the same way.
On the other hand, What you are not ok with, is Grey Fox Games cutting themselves some slack, while not cutting others any slack. That does not seem in the least like a double standard to me.
I also want to reiterate what you said. There is not that much information on the internet about the forces at work. All my information is what is publicly available on their kickstarter page. That is not necessarily a full or complete resume of information. I may have grossly misread or misunderstood something. I am NOT wanting to throw anybody under the bus, even though, with what I read, I do find their behavior deeply troubling.
What I would like to see them do is release some sort of statement of press release explaining their reasonings behind it. That would certainly clear things up (if they're honest). Sure, they'll still lose customers (that's inevitable), but being transparent is so important. Give us a cost breakdown. Explain this obscure thingy that makes it impossible for you to replace the cards. Simply stating that they're not doing it leaves it wide open to interpretation, which is never a good thing on the Internet haha
philryuh Supporter6 months ago | 1 point[-]
I'm sure Grey Fox would be way less stressed out right now if every backer were as understanding as you are Ben hahaha. I hope the gameplay will at least prove itself to be worthwhile for you and your wife. If that doesn't deliver either, man that's a bummer xD..
That's what matters to me, is gameplay. I'm sure we'll like it. It looks good after reading the rulebook, so I have high hopes. (Please don't let those hopes be shattered, please don't let those hopes be shattered...)
Skurvy5 Supporter6 months ago | 1 point[-]
It’s been interesting getting your insight on this. It’s the first time I’ve known someone impacted by a controversy such as this, and I appreciate your responses.
Yeah all the broken promises don't make sense. This doesn't seem like Greyfox. Still, this is part of the reason why I don't back kickstarter games typically and don't pre-order games. I'm ok waiting and then getting the copy that has all of the bugs ironed out.
I figured I was safe with them because they have great games. I wasn't aware of their quality control issue. I'll be more cautious of them in the future, but I won't necessarily not support their Kickstarters. I'll take it case by case.
Still, I'll take Reavers off your hands if you're just too disappointed ;)
I'll keep you in mind :)
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